[00:00:00] Benny Gold:
Don’t just do it to do it because everybody else is doing it. You know, if it’s not your thing, if you don’t really feel like you’re gonna, you know, connect or be able to keep it up, or if it’s just going to be like a burden and not something that you look at as fun, I would definitely suggest against doing it.
[00:00:18] Bobby Steinbach:
Welcome to Hot Docket, the show where we talk about winning marketing strategies that have built the most successful law firms.
[00:00:23] Andrew Nasrinpay:
Join us every two weeks for the latest trends and tactics to grow your law firm.
[00:00:29] Bobby Steinbach:
Hey everyone, and welcome to the Hot Docket podcast.
[00:00:33] Bobby Steinbach:
Today, our guest is Benny Gold. He has his own podcast, Lawyer Stories, which we’re really gonna dive into, but as an overarching theme, I think what we’re gonna be discussing is podcasts for lawyers.
[00:00:45] Bobby Steinbach:
When does it make sense? When doesn’t it make sense? It’s gonna be really meta.
[00:00:49] Andrew Nasrinpay:
Yeah. Podcast about podcasts.
[00:00:51] Bobby Steinbach:
Podcast about podcasts. What is it? What is it? Seinfeld Seinfeld show about that’s show about nothing. That’s not, that’s not a meta show. Okay. Well, in any case, uh, today we have Benny gold with us.
[00:01:07] Bobby Steinbach:
Benny, thanks for joining.
[00:01:09] Benny Gold:
What’s up guys. Thanks for having me on. I appreciate it. It’s good. It’s good to reconnect with the mean pug team.
[00:01:15] Bobby Steinbach:
Yeah, it’s always good to see you. We got to do another event. That was, that was super fun. The
[00:01:19] Benny Gold:
best nights of the summer right there. I mean, you guys were so generous, like a beautiful night on the rooftop.
[00:01:25] Benny Gold:
You know, we just, the vibe was, was, uh, incredible.
[00:01:29] Bobby Steinbach:
It was, it was, we’ll do it again. We got to do it again. Um, I feel like it’d be remiss if I didn’t start by just asking. Like, how does it feel to be on the other side of a podcast?
[00:01:39] Benny Gold:
Yeah, it’s weird, man. Usually I’m, you know, I’m the one sitting down here, uh, you know, given the questions and getting the answers and trying to get the best out of people, uh, the guests on my show.
[00:01:52] Benny Gold:
Um, but you know, like when I was on a podcast before I, I dressed in just like a button down shirt. And then when we were done, the person, the guest was like, Oh man, I was hoping to get the Benny Gold like with your, you know, with your shirt and your necklace like behind the, so I, I decided to go, uh, you know, Benny Gold gear today for the, for our show, for our recording.
[00:02:11] Bobby Steinbach:
I’m happy you did. It’s ideal.
[00:02:13] Andrew Nasrinpay:
So what’s, what drove you to start Lawyer Stories?
[00:02:17] Benny Gold:
Yeah, that’s a good question. So basically, uh, I started as a passion project in 2017 on Instagram. Um, you know, I’m a, I’m a lawyer. I’m licensed in three states, some Maine, Massachusetts and Connecticut. Um, and you know, it wasn’t like an easy linear travel for me to the practice of law.
[00:02:33] Benny Gold:
Um, there were some bumps in the road and, uh, you know, I, I kind of, uh, I got to a point where I finally settled in a little bit and I was just sort of, curious about other lawyers, uh, perspective and perceptions on the actual practice of law. So I, you know, I, I remember seeing like humans in New York. I really loved how that was written.
[00:02:55] Benny Gold:
And I kind of thought to myself, man, I’d love to hear some lawyers. Like, I’d love to hear, um, like what their perceptions are and like why they went to the practice of law. So I started with like five people I knew and, you know, it ended up being like one of those things that it took off a little bit.
[00:03:11] Benny Gold:
Like I started to figure out Instagram and, uh, You know, I, I, uh, that, that was really why I started it. It’s, it’s a very personal mission to me because of, you know, my, my story. So, you know, that’s, that’s something I just, I kept, I kept with it. So that’s basically why I did it because, you know, I was getting some traction.
[00:03:29] Benny Gold:
It seemed like something that people were really interested in and, uh, you know, my interest grew too, so. That’s basically how I, I got engaged with it.
[00:03:38] Bobby Steinbach:
Yeah. I feel like you were one of the original, like creating community for lawyers type of folks. Now we see it everywhere. I think, um, there’s a couple of, yeah, there’s a couple of other agencies actually that I know are bringing up similar communities.
[00:03:51] Bobby Steinbach:
So I feel like you were a pioneer.
[00:03:54] Benny Gold:
Oh, thank you. I’ll have to check those out and see if, you know, They’re uh, they’re legit. No, I’m just kidding.
[00:04:01] Andrew Nasrinpay:
So can you tell us some of the challenges you had to go through when you were starting up your podcast?
[00:04:06] Benny Gold:
Yeah. The podcast, um, it, first of all, I was in a different room in my, in my house.=
[00:04:12] Benny Gold:
I recorded my house. So, So I had to change rooms because we had another, we had a baby. So I had to like bring my, we have a room downstairs. I have a studio, but in terms of, you know, technically I’m not very tech savvy. I kind of had to teach myself like what, um, you know, what. system to use, uh, whether it be Libsyn or I see we’re on like Riverside, uh, one of those.
[00:04:37] Benny Gold:
And then I had to figure out how to upload to YouTube. We have a YouTube channel and figure out how to get everything connected to the biggest streaming platforms or like, you know, Apple, um, Spotify, figure out all that, figure out how to write the copy. Like I still actually do all that. Occasionally I’ll get some help, but I still write all the copy.
[00:04:59] Benny Gold:
Um, so it was very like time consuming, but one of the biggest things I would suggest is obviously you have to be consistent with it, but you also need to have systems, you know, like you gotta know, like, just like with everything, like you gotta know when you want to release an episode and like, when that goes up, like what, like what you’re going to do while you’re waiting for the thing to upload.
[00:05:17] Benny Gold:
Like, so it was, it was a lot like trying to figure out, um, the systems and, and try to do it. Um, but I did have a good, uh, partner with Jared. Uh, Jared Russell was really. He still helps me a lot. Um, and I, I’m starting to, I use the Boston podcast network, 617 pod. So they helped me now with producing the podcast.
[00:05:37] Benny Gold:
So shout out to them.
[00:05:39] Andrew Nasrinpay:
I was just going to ask, are there any mistakes or any lessons you’d want to give to somebody who’s going to start a podcast for the first time? Uh, any advice there?
[00:05:49] Benny Gold:
Um, yeah, I mean, so, so one thing that I, I like to do now is I like to ask a question that will, um, this is more advice.
[00:05:57] Benny Gold:
Like one thing I like to do is ask a question that I know is going to provoke a response that can be used in a real, in a clip all across social medias. Because, you know, even I admit, like, as much as I love, like doing a podcast. You’re not, people might not be listening to it for 45 minutes an hour unless they have a commute, unless they are one of those people who have the thing in their ear all day, like, that’s not really me.
[00:06:19] Benny Gold:
You know, sometimes I’ll have something playing in the background, but, um, get the clips, you know, that, that’s one thing I started to do like a little later as I, as I went, I started to ask those people. provoking questions that enable me to make the shorter form content or have those made. Also, I would suggest not drinking too much.
[00:06:35] Benny Gold:
Like when, if you have a little anxiety before getting on an episode, like, you know, I went from, I think like a low ball, like whiskey glass to, you know, using my, my lawyer stories mug. So you really, you know. You can’t really tell. So that’s another, um, bit of advice I would give, um, and just research your guests, you know, know what they’re up to, know what they’re about.
[00:06:56] Benny Gold:
Don’t, don’t just try to make it more conversational. You know, you don’t want to be like reading from a list. Of course I have, you know, a plethora of notes when I come on, but. I sort of feel like I’ve, I’ve, uh, I’ve gotten to know them even before they get on the show.
[00:07:12] Bobby Steinbach:
Yeah. So you talked about, um, optimizing for reels, optimizing for like short form media.
[00:07:18] Bobby Steinbach:
Are there any tools that you’ve kind of onboarded to help with that? Like, I know we use munch, I think is our tool we use on the AI side to just like chop up big, yeah, chop up big. I used to think it was called something completely. I think, I think it was thought it was called lunch, but munch, um, to chop up these, these clips into, uh, that short form format.
[00:07:38] Bobby Steinbach:
Do you have anything that you can recommend for that type of thing?
[00:07:40] Benny Gold:
So, so I will say this, like at first when I started doing this and I feel bad for this young lady because I sent her over just like the, the, the podcast, I was like, Hey, can you find a clip in here? And the podcast was like 35, 40 minutes.
[00:07:51] Benny Gold:
She’s not like an attorney, not familiar. And I was making her like, What you want to do is you want to either ask your guests, like, do you think you hit a point that you want to get like 60 seconds on? Or just go through and find something that is thought provoking, something that people want to listen to, that gives you advice.
[00:08:08] Benny Gold:
Um, and in terms of, you know, if you’re not, if you don’t have the, the technical like capacity to be able to cut it yourself, like I found, I found somebody on Fiverr, you know, I have somebody on Fiverr that like weekly, I just say, this is our clip for the week. You know, I sent him the link to YouTube. I sent him the, I find the clip that I want to use and I send it over to him and you know, he has, he turns it around in a day or two.
[00:08:33] Bobby Steinbach:
Yeah. Awesome. So you figured out process to get, to get process,
[00:08:37] Benny Gold:
you know? So I try not to get too far ahead of myself with releasing podcasts without getting the clips in. Um, like I did a clip a couple of days ago.
[00:08:46] Bobby Steinbach:
Yeah, that’s awesome. Great advice.
[00:08:48] Bobby Steinbach:
Um, so I want to pivot a little bit here and talk about social media because You are, I would say, one of those few lawyers that’s actually figured out a way to make social media work for you.
[00:08:58] Bobby Steinbach:
So I’d love to hear, you know, how have you been able to build that following and leverage it for your business?
[00:09:05] Benny Gold:
Thanks. Yeah. Um, I definitely seen a lot of people out there, lawyers now on Tik TOK and like on Instagram and have thousands, maybe million followers. Hundreds of thousands of followers. For me, it’s always been organic, like staying organic.
[00:09:19] Benny Gold:
You know, I was like not putting anything weird on my Instagram, not buying followers on my Instagram. You know, I don’t know what other people do. It doesn’t matter to me. Cause you just got to like, do what you’re doing and stay in your lane and not worry about everybody else. Um, but I, you know, I learned how to use Instagram a little bit from listening to like Gary V or you guys from there with him, like he was sort of like a, you know, go in and look at, look at the, um, Look at the commentary and the engagement as a cocktail party.
[00:09:48] Benny Gold:
You know, somebody makes a post, go in there and you can like it, like a few of their posts, or go in there and make a comment, you know, they’ll notice, they’ll see who you are, and then they’ll come back and say, oh, this looks interesting, what’s lawyers stories, and sometimes they don’t. Maybe it works one out of ten, two out of ten times.
[00:10:01] Benny Gold:
But I used that method for a long time, um, and I liked kind of getting into, Instagram and seeing what people were doing, like seeing what the lawyers were doing and, you know, sort of making myself known if I wanted to message somebody I would. Um, so that’s, that’s my advice. Um, and in terms of leveraging, um, one thing that I really pride myself on in lawyer stories is I get to know, like we featured over 2000 attorneys now, and I, I don’t just take their, their story or information as a copycat.
[00:10:33] Benny Gold:
Platform. Like I don’t just take it from their site and put it on mine without them knowing. I say, Hey, would you like to be featured? Like, send us your story, you know, include X, Y, and Z. They send it to me whenever they can. You know, we have some stories in the queue. Um, and I get, you know, if I follow up with them, I tell them how to join certain things.
[00:10:51] Benny Gold:
I tell them about our podcast and I’ve built relationships. Um, so for me, the difference and how I’ve leveraged it is I built these relationships to the point where now. We’re actually having some events, which has been, and obviously we kicked it off in Brooklyn, which was amazing event. Um, we got stellar photos from there.
[00:11:09] Benny Gold:
Um, but that’s how I’ve leveraged it. I’ve met like a lot of people through it. Um, you know, by actually, um, you know, being myself and just like introducing myself and sharing what I do, um, and you, you know, just meeting people from everywhere, it’s, it’s unbelievable.
[00:11:25] Bobby Steinbach:
Uh, that Brooklyn event was awesome. We got it.
[00:11:27] Bobby Steinbach:
We got to have another one. Love another one.
[00:11:29] Andrew Nasrinpay:
Yeah. So we talked to a lot of lawyers that want to start their own podcast. And, you know, I I’m curious how you think that starting a podcast will help other lawyers. And if you think it really makes a big impact on their personal branding or for them as a subject matter expert.
[00:11:49] Benny Gold:
Yeah. I mean, I think it, I think it does. I think you got to be consistent with it. Some people put out a An episode or two and then sort of wait six months to do it. So you should have a plan for it. You know, you should line up some guests before you’re going to do it. I think it would help getting to know people like it’s work for me, even on just Instagram and social media, but you know, you might you might ask somebody who you are interested in having as a referral partner.
[00:12:13] Benny Gold:
to be on your podcast. You know, maybe there’s somebody in personal injury who works in Atlanta, then you get a lot of like you, for some reason you’re in Florida and a lot of the Atlanta cases come through you. Like maybe you have somebody on your podcast, you get to know them, you build these relationships.
[00:12:27] Benny Gold:
Um, you know, but you just have to start, you know, you can’t think about it too much. You just have to start. Um, but I think, um, you know, I think it is a good idea for, for lawyers, um, who want to put themselves out more. Um, to get into the podcast space.
[00:12:44] Bobby Steinbach:
I think it circles back to this idea of like account based sales, right?
[00:12:48] Bobby Steinbach:
You’re, you’re just building relationships because eventually people have problems. And if you’re in communication with them, you’ve built this conversation and dialogue. It’s more likely that they’re going to want to work with you. So I think it makes a lot of sense for any B2B business really to do something like this.
[00:13:05] Bobby Steinbach:
Um, but on that note, like I, I’d be really curious to hear from you. What do you think a bad reason to start a podcast would be?
[00:13:13] Benny Gold:
Wow. That’s a, that’s a good question. Um, a bad reason to start a podcast. I don’t know, just to maybe for the, you know, the wrong reasons, like. To talk, you know, talk about negative things.
[00:13:28] Benny Gold:
I would say like, if you’re going to trash people, like don’t do it. I don’t think any lawyers would really do that. Um, I hope not, but I would say keep it positive. Um, you definitely don’t want to keep it positive and professional. You know, I used to get stories from people or young ladies that it would be like, uh, you know, do you think you could send another photo that might be a little more appropriate for Instagram?
[00:13:50] Benny Gold:
Um, and like this professional networking, but. You know, I think don’t just do it to do it because everybody else is doing it. You know, if it’s not your thing, if you don’t really feel like you’re going to, you know, connect or be able to keep it up, or if it’s just going to be like a burden and not something that you look at as, as fun.
[00:14:06] Benny Gold:
I would definitely suggest against doing it because it can be a lot of work.
[00:14:11] Bobby Steinbach:
Yep. I think that’s all good advice.
[00:14:13] Andrew Nasrinpay:
Have you noticed anything in common with the podcast that you might see pop up, do a couple of episodes, then just completely disappear?
[00:14:23] Benny Gold:
Uh, not really. I mean, I don’t really keep track of the ones that disappear that much, I guess.
[00:14:28] Benny Gold:
I, you know, I don’t really watch too many to be honest. Um, I just think I don’t know. A lot of them are pretty similar. I think a lot of them are talking about cases or talking about like techniques and that, and that sort of thing. Um, I think you really got to work hard to like distinguish yourself and distinguish your brand.
[00:14:46] Benny Gold:
Um, but I, I don’t know what, what would, um, drive a podcast off. I think maybe if like an attorney, obviously being a lawyer, very busy, um, people might not have time in their schedule to keep producing episodes. Um, but I have seen a lot of stuff that’s sort of the same. Uh, so I think maybe, um, That’s a driving force to, to leave it.
[00:15:06] Bobby Steinbach:
Yeah.
[00:15:07] Bobby Steinbach:
And so I know the focus of this podcast is podcasts, but I think it’s like, it’d be remiss if we didn’t talk a little bit about, you know, lawyer stories as a whole and kind of the idea of community building inside legal. What, what do you think is lawyer stories bring to the table and, you know, fills a gap, I guess, on the legal side in terms of community, where does community fit in?
[00:15:29] Benny Gold:
Yeah, thanks. I mean, I’m all about community. I mean, I started calling this thing a community, like, when we just started, because I saw people connecting with each other inside of the, you know, the engagement on Instagram. You know, I remember, for a long time, I didn’t really know what it was, right? I didn’t know what lawyers, I knew I was onto something, but I didn’t really know what it was.
[00:15:47] Benny Gold:
And then, somebody said to me that they went to a conference in California, and they said this other young lady ran up to her and said, Hey. Like I saw you on lawyer stories and that it’s kind of clicked to me at that point that, Oh, like, you know, maybe like this is like a lawyer to lawyer sort of connection, like community type of thing.
[00:16:04] Benny Gold:
You know, one thing I like to say that it does bring to the legal profession is, is it’s like an authentic and genuine way to, to meet people by sharing a little bit of your stories now. I’m not saying you have to share your complete story, you know, you can share a little bit of your story. And I’m not saying that we’re trying to weaken lawyers and make them, you know, look weak and, uh, you know, feeble to their clients because Obviously, we want lawyers out there who are gonna fight, right?
[00:16:30] Benny Gold:
Um, but I do think it is an important, um, aspect to have the legal profession humanizing the attorneys a little bit beyond, like, their resume, beyond their accolades, you know, beyond the degree. Like, tell us a little bit why, what your inspiration was, why you’re fighting so hard for that criminal defendant, or why it’s so important for you, you know, to get, let that, um, immigrant.
[00:16:52] Benny Gold:
Get into, you know, get the, the status that they need in the country. So that, that’s really, I think, um, important. And I think, like, when somebody subjects themselves and comes on Lawyer Stories, they’re sort of, you know, Um, there’s sort of, it’s an implicit sort of, Hey, like, you know, I’m open to connecting.
[00:17:08] Benny Gold:
I want to talk sort of thing. Like I want to network, you know, I want to make friends. I want to build relationships and I think it is kind of important to this, this day and age.
[00:17:18] Bobby Steinbach:
Yup. Easy to lose sight of, uh, the things that aren’t direct in like your legal day to day. Um, so no, I think that’s all good advice.
[00:17:27] Bobby Steinbach:
So Benny, we always like to wrap up with a little game here. And, uh, for you, you know, you podcast, we podcast, it’s a podcasting centric episode. So let’s talk podcasts.
[00:17:48] Bobby Steinbach:
I think we’ll wrap up here with a game called good question, bad question. So for each of these, tell us whether you think it’s a good podcast question slash prompt, uh, or a bat or a bad one. Um, I’ll start and then I’ll, have you used
[00:18:02] Benny Gold:
all of these or no?
[00:18:04] Bobby Steinbach:
Oh, I think probably. Yeah. Don’t, don’t let it bias you.
[00:18:09] Bobby Steinbach:
Give us, give us like the cold hard truth. Um, okay. First one. So what led you to become a lawyer?
[00:18:18] Benny Gold:
Oh, that’s a good, great one.
[00:18:20] Bobby Steinbach:
That’s a good question.
[00:18:21] Benny Gold:
Yeah.
[00:18:22] Andrew Nasrinpay:
All right. Nice. Can you tell us a little about yourself?
[00:18:26] Benny Gold:
I think that’s good. I’ve, I’ve used all of these, so I don’t want to say they’re bad.
[00:18:31] Bobby Steinbach:
Uh, okay.
[00:18:32] Bobby Steinbach:
Third, what are some of the things you enjoy doing outside of work?
[00:18:36] Benny Gold:
Yeah, I actually, I think that’s an important question. Okay.
[00:18:39] Andrew Nasrinpay:
What advice would you give other looker lawyers looking to start a law firm?
[00:18:43] Benny Gold:
Yeah, I mean, that’s a good, I’m not kidding with you guys. These are all good questions. We’re killing it.
[00:18:47] Benny Gold:
These questions.
[00:18:48] Bobby Steinbach:
All right. I’m, I’m, I’m feeling like we’re in a much better place after talking about this. Um, all right, great. Well then we only have one other question. I really want to double down on the meta in this episode. So final question, good question, bad question, prompt. Let’s play a game called good question.
[00:19:04] Bobby Steinbach:
Bad question. Is that a good question? Oh,
[00:19:07] Benny Gold:
yeah. Yeah. I mean, I, I personally don’t do games like it was suggested for me to like, try to mix it up and do some of those things, but I, I’m sort of like somebody who likes routine a little bit. And so I kind of figured out like my system, like what works for me.
[00:19:23] Benny Gold:
But I think that that could probably, I think that that would probably work for you guys on your show. If you did that.
[00:19:30] Bobby Steinbach:
All right. Ending with a bang. Bad question. Bad question. All right. Well, Benny, thanks for joining us. It’s been a, as always.
[00:19:38] Benny Gold:
Yeah, man. Thanks guys. Very much. Stay in touch.
[00:19:41] Bobby Steinbach:
Of course.
[00:19:42] Benny Gold:
Best of luck to you.
[00:19:43] Benny Gold:
Thank you to the Mean Pug team. I appreciate you guys a lot.
[00:19:46] Bobby Steinbach:
We appreciate you. All the time.
[00:19:55] Bobby Steinbach:
Andrew. Wow. My mic is just all over the place. I feel like every time I get on like the final outro, I’m either breaking a couch or my mic is falling over. There it goes. As
[00:20:07] Andrew Nasrinpay:
is tradition. As
[00:20:08] Bobby Steinbach:
is tradition. Um, But that was a cool episode because like, who doesn’t love meta? That’s always fun. I feel like it’s like a crossover episode or something.
[00:20:17] Andrew Nasrinpay:
Yeah, and I think he’s got a very interesting perspective having probably interviewed more lawyers than anybody and Having been in the podcast space for so long It’s always really refreshing to hear like the OG’s Perspective on all things podcast
[00:20:37] Bobby Steinbach:
agreed, and I think like for anybody looking to start a podcast that that take away of like build process around it, you know, we’ve seen that in the work we’ve been doing, putting together this podcast.
[00:20:48] Bobby teinbach:
I think Benny really reaffirmed it. Process rules all and taking the upfront time. To figure out something that’s going to work is valuable.
[00:20:56] Andrew Nasrinpay:
Yeah. I think it’s one of those things that people talk about a lot where everyone wants to start a podcast. So many podcasts either are in people’s minds and they’ll never be made or one or two episodes are made and then they kind of give up on it because they like doing the actual podcast, but not all the work associated with the process of it.
[00:21:14] Andrew Nasrinpay:
So finding the people to come on the shows. And uploading it and going through all like the business side of it that you need to do.
[00:21:22] Bobby Steinbach:
Yeah, no, it’s a lot of work. It’s a lot of work not for the faint of heart Um, but I think that’s as good a place as any to wrap up for today. So Thanks again to benny for joining and we’ll put all the info in the show notes.
[00:21:33] Bobby Steinbach:
So people have it Um till the next episode Thanks for joining. We hope you’ve enjoyed this episode of hot docket where your hosts, Bobby and Andrew founders of mean pug, the marketing agency for ambitious law firms,
[00:21:46] Andrew Nasrinpay:
have questions about marketing or anything we covered today, email us at bark at mean pug.
[00:21:52] Andrew Nasrinpay:
com.
